Stance    orthodox
Height    5′ 7″
Reach    67“
W 49 (KO 36) L 4 D 1

Marquez Mastery of Counter Punching

This has been Juan Manuel Marquez bread and butter throughout his career, if you want to see a fighter who can throw counter: Jabs, straight rights, left hooks and uppercuts to either head or body Juan Manual Marquez  is your man. Marquez ability to quickly time opponents and make them pay again-and-again has caused some of Juan Manuals fights to lack excitement. Once a fighter has taken few sharp counters from Dinamita they tend to adopt a more conservative approach to attack (or if not beaten up and/or stopped). This leaves it down to Marquez who has already found a winning formula to force the action – something he has not always been willing to do.

Juan Manuel Marquez defence

Intelligent footwork is the obvious defensive ploy which keeps Marquez out of trouble. By constantly circling his opponents Marquez is able to prevent them from setting their feet and throwing their heavier shots. No runner Marquez approach is  Cobra like as he hypnotises his prey with movement before striking,  Opponents often find themselves following him around the ring going in effect where he wants them to go. The effect of this is that when they do throw shots they are often reaching with their punches leaving them open to counters.  When opponents choose not to  engage Marquez is also able to step in on the attack and throw punches while or before using lateral movement to escape without taking punishment. This is not Marquez only defensive trick however even if you can pin Marquez down he has a vastly underrated ability to slip punches. When cornered Marquez often dips his right knee in order to avoid oncoming jabs and crosses again causing opponents to land just short. By dipping his knee Marquez is also able to maintain his stance and again counter his opponent.  If this was not enough Marquez also has the reflexes and smarts to read opponents and react often ducking over straight eights (or lefts) and weaving beneath hooks.  All this being said Juan Manual Marquez is no Floyd Mayweather Jnr or even Joan Guzman and can and has been caught – especially when adopting  the more aggressive style that has given him success of late..

Juan Manual Marquez ability to brawl

Going toe-to-toe is something that excites the fans and can break another fighters heart.  Often furious exchanges , in evenly matched duels the person who comes out on top simply wanted it more.  What limited art there is to this approach Marquez utilises; Stiffening his neck muscles tucking in his chin and coming in low Marquez wings  away feet planted with hard hooks with both hands mixed with the occasional straight right to head and body, injecting a degree of  lateral movement every now and then. While no-one can win all of these tit for chat exchanges  I noted that  Marquez  tends to win more than he loses most notably against Marco Antonio Barrera who is a master in this field and Manny Pacqiao who Marquez continues to take on even after he was dropped in more than one of these exchanges.

Juan Manual Marquez the complete fighter

Juan Manual Marquez has a list of positive attributes which few if at all any fighters in the world can match: Fearless, highly skilful, experienced, intelligent, tough and versatile  Juan Manual Marquez is arguably the best fighter in the world today. His ability to out-box and out-fight opponents is very rare and if he carried a heavier punch there is no doubt in my mind he would hold two KO victories over the consensus pound-for-pound number one Manny Pacquiao who seems hesitant to sign up for a rematch the Mexican warrior even though many dispute his points victory over Marquez.

Erm, How old is Marquez

The main thing going against Juan Manual Marquez is his age! Having been considered safety first earlier in his career Marquez has been able to maintain a high level of performance longer than younger Mexican contemporaries Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales. However father time catches up with everyone and now in his mid-thirties it is completely feasible that one day Marquez will wake up  and have lost that step or two. If you don’t believe it happens just ask Oscar De La Hoya.

Is Marquez suffering from Wear and Tear?

Marquez has been stepping into consecutively hard contests, and is now using a much more aggressive style which has caused him to take more shots. The last fighter I can recall who did this was the late Diego Corrales who’s amazing run came to an end by fourth round KO defeat in a rematch against Jose Luis Castillio  – who he had beaten iby 10th round KO n an all time classic in his previous fight. Marquez can and probably will continue to burn the candle but these kind of actions take a toll.

Marquez has moved up in weight!

The fact that Juan Manual Marquez in now operating as a Featherweight two divisions above featherweight means he is now facing fighters who are naturally bigger and stronger than him. While his victory over Joel Casamayor was impressive the Cuban great is in the twilight of his career and pushed Marquez for most of the fight. When he does get in the ring with a young strong talented fighter such as Juan “Baby-Bull” Diaz will he be able to cope with the size disadvantage? Time will tell.

Page 1: Juan Manuel Marquez – the early years

Page 2: Juan Manuel Marquez – Wins his firt title

Page 3: Juan Manuel Marquez – vs Manny Pacquiao

Page 4: Juan Manuel Marquez – Begins to Decline?

Page 5: Juan Manuel Marquez – The comeback and Marco Antonio Barrera

Seven months later Pacquiao repeated Marquez trick in a far less thrilling contest against Marco Antonio Barrera. Winning a wide unanimous decision in a fight where the Pacman seemed unwilling to steamroll his opponent while Barrera seemed hesitant also and it looked as if he was happy to take the points defeat if that meant he would not be beaten up.
Then can the rematch Pacquiao vs Marquez 2 – Again it was close again Marquez hit the canvass this time in the third round and again Juan Manual Marquez came back stronger stunning and hurting Pacquiao throughout an enthralling fight. Although the general feeling was that Marquez had done just enough to win but like Pacquiao Marquez one there had been enough close rounds for people to legitimately argue that Pacquiao had won the fight. The results came in. It was a split decision. The judges scored it:

115 – 112 Pacquiao 112 – 115 Marquez, 114 -113 Pacquiao

The third round knockdown won it for Pacquiao on the deciding judge’s card. Another close but exciting, competitive and controversial fight had more calls for a rematch nothing had been settled.
However this time Pacquiao and his camp did not feel the same this has led to some fight fans believing that Juan Manual Marquez has Manny Pacquiao’s number. Pacquiao instead moved up in weight and picked up a title against David Diaz who was seen as the weakest link of title holders in the Lightweight division before shocking the world by battering The Golden Body Oscar De La Hoya into submission within seven rounds to cement his position as p4p number one (with or without Floyd Mayweather Jnr presence in professional boxing).

Marquez now actively chasing a rematch with Pacquiao o,moved up to Lightweight but took on the linear Champion and future Hall of Famer the Cuban boxer puncher Joel Casamayor. Although severly faded Casamayor did beat the strong Australian puncher Michael Katsidis in his last fight and had never been stopped even though he had shared the right with some murderous punchers including: Diego Corrales, Acelino Freitas and Jose Luis Castilio. In another close contest which played out as a chess match for the purist if compared to contests against Pacquiao and Barrera Marquez did what no one else had been able to do when he forced the referee to stop the fight in the 11th round.
No-one would have blamed Juan Manuel Marquez for then taking a break having fought three cast iron Hall-of-fame fighters and the always solid Rocky Juarez in his last four fights many would have forgiven Juan Manual Marquez for taking a softer touch in his next fight, Not since the late Diego Corrales has any fighter fought top competition back to back in this fashion. However Juan Manual Marquez seems to be not only chasing Manny Pacquiao but creating a legacy.
On February 28th 2009 Juan Manuel Marquez will take a fighter earmarked by many as a future star in Juan Baby Bull Diaz But how does he win the fight against the durable but intelligent pressure fighter with fast hands and underrated skills?

Marquez changed Mangers and moved into the growing Golden Boy promotional stable where I am sure he was told he was now fighting for his future. After two stoppage wins against which led to Marquez picking up the interim WBO title (Which makes him the champ without being the champ) Marquez was slated to fight the reigning WBO champion Scott Harrison who’s out of the ring problems and struggle in making the weight made him a venerable champion at the time. Harrisons issues meant the fight would not happen but when one door closes another one opens and Marquez was offered a fight against promotional stable mate  and Mexico City native Marco Antonio Barrera.

Although Barrera was the number one Super Featherweight in the world but he had shown holes in his armour coasting to a 12 round decision against IBF champion and former sparring partner Robbie Peden and struggling against the good but unheralded Rocky Juarez which many felt he lost before winning a clear points decision against the same fighter in a rematch where Barrera seemed unwilling or unable to engage and excite the fans in the way he use to. This was Marquez chance to not only make his mark but to re-establish his legacy in boxing.
The fight was a classic through the first 7 rounds Marquez showed why he deserved to be on this kind of stage Barrera was fighting well and the fight was close but as each round went by my perception was that Marquez was out-boxing and out-fighting the baby face assassin in fierce flurries. Barrera’s ability to outfight opponents in furious flurries had been a staple throughout his career but Juan Manual Marquez was getting the better of these exchanges.
That seventh round was one of the most dramatic in boxing history. Juan Manual Marquez was now beginning to wear down Marco Antonio Barrera and after staggering him in the 7th round with a clear right hand Marquez fired in quick hard combinations and looked to be on the verge of stopping Barrera. Then on the bell Barrera caught Marquez with a thunderous right from nowhere which put Juan Manual Marquez down. Then madness ensued the frustration of being outfought and beaten up in the 7th caused him to hit Juan Manual Marquez while he was still down costing him a point and the round.  Marquez recovered during the 1 minute break and won a bruising but clear unanimous 12 round decision by clear scores of:
111 – 116 twice and 109 – 118 all for Marquez.

It would be fair to assume now that Marquez had now arrived and a quick repeat of one of the fights of the year seemed inevitable. But it didn’t materialise, money disputes, poor managerial decisions and maybe even foolish pride caused Marquez to miss out on a fight with Pacquiao and Erik Morales who in the spring of 2005 fought each other for the first time.

During the next two years Juan Manuel Marquez missed out on fights with the marquee names he had worked so hard to be mentioned alongside. Barrera completed his trilogy with Erik Morales and established himself as the number one Super Featherweight in the world. Pacquiao also moved up to the Super Featherweight boxing division and conducted a trilogy with Erik Morales which would see the faded Mexican great obliterated within three rounds in the rubber match.  Instead of being involved in these battles  Marquez was left behind in the featherweight division facing good if not  stellar opponents like Victor Polo and Orlando Salido.

But how did this happen? When  the chance to face Pacquiao again, in one of the most eagerly anticipated rematches in boxing   – Marquez was offered a career high $750,000 purse, however instead of snapping up this pay day Marquez promoters (at the time) Top Rank claimed Juan Manual  Marquez and his manager Nacho Beristain baulked and demanded the offer be doubled to  $1.5m dollars in order to match what Team Marquez believed Pacquiao, the fighter he had exposed, and who held no title would be making.  By refusing to accept less money than Pacquiao Juan Manuel Marquez effectively cut off his nose to spite his face and while Pacquiao took on and lost to Erik Morales who had  himself lost a clear decision to Marco Antonio Barrera just a few months before.

Instead of fighting Pacquiao Juan Manual Marquez took on credible but unknown challenger victor Polo, similar to Marquez the awkward southpaw had been very unlucky to only get a draw in his last fight against the troubled WBO title holder Scott Harrisons. The two unfortunate heroes clashed. Marquez took a clear but unexciting unanimous decision.

Many including myself can see the principle behind Marquez refusing to take the short end of the stick in a rematch against Pacquiao. But what was reported to of happened next no-one understood and almost ruined Juan Manual Marquez legacy in boxing.  After team Marquez had spurned HBO and his promoters Top Rank by passing on an immediate rematch with Manny Pacquiao – Marquez was given a chance at redemption with the added bonus of a $1.5mpurse  to fight Erik “El Terrible” Morales who had vanquished the Pacman in his last fight and raised the buzzing rumours that Manny Pacquiao was a limited boxer to a fully fledged chorus. Again the deal was not made, with Top Rank claiming Juan Manual Marquez and his team were demanding $3.5m for the fight.

This one the fans,  networks and his promoters could not understand the PR battle had been lost and Marquez trainer/manager Nacho Beristain was being portrayed as more hindrance than aid in Marquez career . In popular boxing forums the unquestionable desire Marquez had shown in his fight with Manny Pacquiao was now forgotten. Marquez relationship with Top-Rank had now completely disintegrated and in one of the most bizarre episodes in modern day boxing one of the more recognisable names in boxing was stripped of his title when not one promoter met the $50 000 minimum to promote the fight. The strange this is that it was not only Top-Rank who by this time had more or less washed their hands of Marquez who failed to bid the minimum amount to stage the fight but  his mandatory opponent Phafrakorb Rakkiatgym  promoters also! Still Marquez was stripped while Rakkiatgym maintained his number one contender status… is it only boxing that works with this kind of logic?
This odd predicament only confirmed what had been long suspected, Juan Manual Marquez was now out in the cold. And instead of a rematch with Pacquiao or an all Mexican super fight with Erik Morales under the guidance of Nacho Beristain he would be receiving $50,000 to travel to Indonesia to fight a long time Featherweight title holder who almost no-one had seen Chris John. There are various stories surrounding Juan Manual Marquez trip to Indonesia but the facts are Chris John won a clear unanimous decision on the cards which very few people saw live. Watching the fight online Chris John is a good fighter who was able to counter and avoid Marquez who was forced to come forward but unable to significantly hurt John during this fight. Although many boxing fans and analysts dispute the decision it was a close fight and not the robbery that it is seen as today.

Sadley for Marquez boxing has become a sport where a fighter is only as good as his last fight and when on the verge of superstardom in a sport with very few stars Marquez seemed to choose depravity.

Going into the fight there were rumours that Manny was destroying sparring partners in training with Pacquiao’s trainer Freddie Roach said to of told reporters that Paccquiaos main sparring partner  Welterwight Javier Garcia did not return to the gym after suffering a cut above his eye and being dropped by the Filipino icon. This was just one of several horror stories fed to the media in the run-up to an increasingly interesting contest. Despite all the hype surrounding Pacquiao Marquez had remained calmly confident of success against the Pacquiao.

Marquez faces Pacquiao for the first time: Round One

On May 8th 2004 Juan Manuel Marquez squared off against Manny Pacquiao for the first time. For the first half of the round Marquez seemed to be doing better landing right hands and left hooks against the faster Pacquiao who looked disjointed and awkard. Then with approximately 1:30 left in the round Juan Manual Marquez took a straight left hand from Pacquiao which put him on his backside – Marquez jumped straight back up and received a mandatory 8 count from referee Joe Cortez apparently unhurt.

As Pacquiao rushed towards him Marquez maintained his composure but was soon clipped by another straight left which stiffened his legs, another hard straight left dropped him to the floor for the second time in the round. He again got to his feet straight away but he was a little slower and was visibly hurt. With 54 seconds left in the round Juan Manuels Marquez first big fight looked like ending before it even began. More ragged now the normally graceful Marquez stumbled over his own feet in centre of the ring as Pacquiao stalked him Marquez now back against took another thunderous straight left from the Pacman. While falling Marquez used his right and to grab onto the second rope, this undoubtedly saved him from taking a very heavy knockdown while squatting and technically down Pacquiao made up for Juan Manual use of the ropes by hitting Marquez while he was on the floor. For the first time Marquez lay flat on the canvas as the referee counted perhaps he’d had  enough? Perhaps he hoped the referee would save him by disqualifying Pacquiao? But for a split second it seemed as thought the fight was over then and then – Not quite,  at the count of eight Juan Manuel Marquez rose to his feet. With 30 seconds left in the round the referee let the fight continue if Pacquiao dropped Marquez again or seriously hurt it the fight would surely be stopped. during those 30 seconds Marquez showed incredible heart taking more straight lefts but refusing to fold, he survived the round walking to his corner blood streaming from his nose.

Even though he had survived the round, The  one minute rest-bite Marquez would enjoy before coming out for round two seemed (for most observers) to merely delaying the inevitable – In that first round Manny Pacquiao had shown the world he was two quick and two powerful for Marquez who would fair far worse than the last Mexican who faced Manny Pacquiao, Marco Antonio Barrera who at least got to the  11 round.

Juan Manual Marquez vs Manny Pacquiao Round 2 – 12

But Marquez had trained very hard for this fight training in the mountains at an altitude of 16,000 feet pushing himself to the limits very few men will ever experience. The overriding theme associated with successful sportsman, businessman, and entertainers is hard work and Juan Manuel Marquez had put in the hours and was unwilling to yield in this fight after one bad round. In the second Marquez came out and made key adjustment circling away from Pacquiao left hand, and reverting to the counter punching mode. By circling away from Pacquiao southpaw left Marquez was forcing Pacquiao to reach with the straight left, leaving him open to the right hand counter. Marquez was using the counterpunching style which had got him into this position. As Pacquiao came forward trying to land that big left Juan Manual Marquez countered with sharp rights to head and body mixed in with clever left hooks and bursts of aggressive combinations that kept Pacquiao guessing. Pacquiao and Freddie Roach had no answer and by Round 4 commentator Boxing Hall of Fame trainer Emmanuel Steward had noted that Marquez had managed to nullify the effect of Pacquiao left hand, by round five Pacquiao was bleeding and by round six he had been rocked and there was no doubting who was in control. Without completely dominating as Calzaghe did against Jeff Lacy or Ronald “Winky” Wright did when defeating Tito Trinidad Marquez had turned the fight around but there were alot of close rounds. In fights like this the result is always controversial; this fight was no different and is still debated today.

The judge’s scores were:

115 – 110 Pacquiao 115 – 110 Marquez and finally 113 – 113 a draw.
Maybe the most controversial point being with the final Judge only scoring the first round 10 – 7 to Pacquiao instead of 10 – 6.

Marquez had neither won or lost but by exposing Pacquiao’s limitations as a boxer and overcoming a brutal 1st round, Dinamita had gained more from the draw than Pacquiao.

Sure Marquez had a belt but there was no disputing who the man was at Featherweight in 2003. While Marquez was walking through the likes of Baby Lorona Jnr and Hector Javier Marquez,  Marco Antonio Barrera had dismantled the British KO artist Prince Naseem Hamed and avenged his defeat against long time Mexican rival Erik “El Teriible” Morales.

Marquez aspirations to be regarded as the number one featherweight in the world had also hit another problem. Even though Juan Manual Marquez had kept winning he had failed to captivate the fans who have  propelled Mexican fighters such as Salvador Sanchez, Julio Caesar Chavez, and Marco Antonio Barrera to stardom. This left Marquez in a state of limbo which has unfairly plagued some of boxings must talented craftsman such as Ronald “Winky” Wright and Paul “The Punisher” Williams. Marquez was an opponent who offered high risk with little reward. Until recently Antonio Margarito could have been placed in  this bracket until a high profile win against promotional stable-mate and star in the making Miguel Cotto saw him thrust partially into the limelight.

Marquez picks up another title

With a superfight with Barrera finally on the cards Marquez took on the other credible title holder in the division Derick Gainer beating him by technical decision he would finally get his shot at Mexican legend Marco Antonio Barrera. As Marquez proved he was worthy of facing the Baby Face Assasin Marco Antoni Barrera had taken an easy fight against an young Philipino fighter with a strong following in his own country and an impressive KO record but was unproven at the elite level the likes of Erik Morales, Floyd Mayweather, Shane Mosely and Bernard Hopkings had made home. He was seemingly overmatched…

Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez

Long story short The Living Legend that is Marco Antonio Barerra was comprehensively dethroned by the Pacman.  Beaten up and stopped in eleven rounds Pacquiao had beaten the man and now he wanted the belts and unequivocal recognition as the number one Featherweight in the World as Erik Morales had already moved up to Super Featherweight to win a title in his third weight division, the IBF and WBA champion Marquez was positioned perfectly. He would take on the Filipino icon who had defeated the stand out Mexican boxer of his generation in order to lay to rest any disputes as to who was the best Featherweight in world boxing was.

While Marco Antonio Barrerea and Erik Morales have grabbed the spotlight as Mexico’s premier boxing exports in the latest era of boxing Juan Manuel Marquez has toiled away in the background. However at the age of 35 Juan Manuel Marquez has won titles at two weights, beaten Marco Antonio Barrerea, became the first man to stop Joel Casamayor and had two very close fights with Manny Pacquiao which many argue he was more than unfortunate not to have won. Today boxing fans and pundits are beginning to believe Juan Manuel Marquez may be the greatest Mexican boxer of his generation. As Juan Manuel Marquez takes  another very dangerous fight against the formidable Juan “Baby Bull” Diaz. We will  take a look at his career to date and his strenths and weaknesses.

Juan Manual Marquez: Where it all began

Born in Mexico City in 1973 Juan Manuel Marquez is one of eight children and most great fighters fighters and atheletes who make it to the top he started young at the age of 8. Most likley motivated by a friendly sibling rivalry with younger brother Rafael and the guidance of a father who himself contested 35 professional fights. by the time Marquez turned pro in May 1993 two months after a 16 year old Erik Morales, Marquez had won two Golden Glove titles and amassed  an amateur  record of 35-1.

Juan Manual Marquez Pre-Pacquiao

Juan Manuel Marquez proffessional career didn’t get off to the best of starts as he experienced his first defeat via disqualification to future journey man Javier Duran. Undterred Marquez went on to win 29 fights in a row scoring 22  knockouts. Gradually climbing up the featherweight ranks, his run of victories earned him  a shot at the WBA Featherweight title where he fought and lost a unanimous decision to Freddie Norwood. Not that anyone would know at the time, this result would set a trend for future losses in Juan Manual Marquez  career as it is disputed by some and ratified by others on equal terms. Like most people I didn’t see Marquez vs Norwood, but from what I have read it was one to forget with more grappling than boxing.

While building a reputation as an excellent boxer Juan Manuel Marques often repressed the fighter within. While Marquez scored plenty of KO’s it was often done in a less scintillating fashion than compatriots Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales who despite being younger than Marquez were more experienced and more accomplished  having already fought two classic bouts witheach other by the time Marquez picked up his first title in February 2003 against battle tested veteran Manuel Medina. Medina had already faced and usually lost to many of the top 10 featherweights at the time with names on his record including: Tom Johnson, Derrick Gainer, Paul Ingle Johnny Tapia, Lusito Espinosa, John John Molina and Naseem Hamed.  Barrera and Morales aside, if you throw in Kevin Kelly and Kennedy McKinney Medina record can be read as a who’s who of the featherweight division from around 1994 to 2002 and even though Juan Manual Marquez was not the first man to stop Medina by dispatching the tough veteran within 5 rounds he was the fastest. Just short of his 10 year anniversary as a pro Juan Manual Marquez  was finally crowned featherweight champion of the world, after missing out with fights with Naseem Hamed he had arrived! Well almost…

On February 28th in Houston’s Toyota Centre,  Mexican boxing stylist Dinamita Juan Manual Marquez meets Juan “Baby Bull” Diaz in a very interesting and exciting match-up expected to buck the trend in the American boxing scene (if initial reports are to be believed) by drawing a crowd of more than 15,000 paying customers… The reason behind this phenomenon you ask? It’s Simple! The fight is in the Baby Bulls home town.

Diaz vs Marquez: The Power of Home Advantage

For me this is what boxing needs to move back to; Big fights in fighter’s hometowns or at the very least close to a fighter’s home.  Like the best supported teams in the world, Think Manchester United, the New York Yankees and the Los Angeles Lakers the biggest draws in boxing rely on a solid home base. That’s how Cory Spinks is/was able to draw so well in St Louis while general boxing fans considered him… talented but dull… And he is not the only one to benefit from the power of home support.

…More Local Boxing Heroes

Kelly Pavlik empties Youngstown when he fights, Ricky Hatton seems to take a chunk of the Manchester population with him everywhere he goes and Irish born John Duddy has built up a steady following in New York.

A fighter from your town or Neighbourhood is like your local Football team you like to see them doing well and even if you’re not a diehard fan you will take a mild interest because it’s someone from your home turf you can relate to and (if they are successful) you may even feel they represent you.

This is why I am pleased Marquez vs. Diaz will take place in Houston in what should be a very interesting and competitive fight. Maybe more promoters will look to develop talent closer to home… Easier said than done I’m sure but when it is pulled off it seems to work, even in America.

So who will win:  Marquez or Diaz?

In the next few weeks I will be taking a look at the different dynamics and factors behind this fight in order to identify the winner. Right now my I am leaning towards an upset win for Juan Diaz – although Juan Manuel Marquez may have something to prove after his nemesis Manny Pacquiao beat his (and Diaz’s)  promoter Oscar De la Hoya.

“Barrera 29″

“A very old 29. When you turn pro at 15, and fight a ton of wars, you are only 29 in number…”

Like Bernard Hopkins Marco Antonio Barerra has prolonged his career by changing from fighter to boxer. Even after Barrera was crushed by Manny Pacquiao he was able to move up in weight to win the Super Featherweight title and successfully defend it until he fought Juan Manuel Marquez in 2007.

“Knocked him out, when Calzaghe didn’t.”

“No one is saying Calzaghe is a better pound for pound puncher, but he takes guys to school at the highest level available to him (which is comparable toPacquiao’s overall). Pacquiao even has a draw against Agapito Sanchez, and he lost to an aging Morales. He does slip. That you cannot argue with.”

I have already stated that I don’t think his level of competition is comparable. I will admit that Calzaghe has put in some very good performances against Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler. He dominated against Roy Jones in a fight I consider meaningless after Jones had been KO’d by both Tarver and Johnson and I felt he pressured Hopkins well in a very close fight.

The Doctor stopped Pacquiao fight with Agapito Sanchez due to an accidental clash of heads, it was a technical draw not much the Pacman could do there. And he did lose to Morales and had a host of excuses afterwords which very few believed until he faced El Terrible and took him to pieces. TWICE!

“Hopkins was 43″
“…Did you just miss Hopkins schooling of Kelly Pavlik? Hopkins was made to look old and discombobulated, because Calzaghe was that good. Calzaghe is 37 himself, and no spring chicken, and he was still outfighting the legends.”

Granted it was an excellent performance by Hopkins. But as the Executioner said Styles make fights while I thought Hopkins would beat on Pavlik for the first 5 or 6 rounds he proved me wrong by doing it all night. However I think you’re forgetting the Hopkins vs Calzaghe fight result had quite a few people divided. It was a close split decision where Calzaghe (who is 36) pressed the fight and threw a lot to land a little while Hopkins landed the cleaner better shots and fought in spurts. I didn’t come away from that thinking “JoeCalzaghe is amazing…” No I thought a few years ago maybe 6 when Hopkins was 37 he would have taken Joe apart.

“Lacy and Kessler were unproven.”

HELLO??
“Can you say Prince Naseem Hamed? Kessler and Lacy had beaten only contenders and fractional belt holders before, just the like the Prince. If you are going to toutBarrera for that win, then give Calzaghe his due.”

I wasn’t touting Barrera I was advocating Pacquiao. The facts are at the time, that was the second biggest win of Barrera’s career and it wasn’t just what he did but how he did it, shocking the boxing world by changing from pressure fighter to boxer.

“David Diaz is Nicolai Valuev”

“What?? The leap to Heavyweight from where Calzaghe is, is 50-75 pounds. Pacquiao moved 5, and now 12. And he’s gonna get beat. Calm down.”

Well if Calzaghe started at 168lbs its actually 33 pounds as the Cruiserweight limit is 200lbs. Manny started out at 106lbs and is now fighting at 135 so that’s 29lbs…Guess I should of said Cruiserweight..still by Pacquiao fighting Oscar De la Hoya at 147lbs he will have moved up 41lbs in total. Insane I know but that’s why he is P4P number one, he dares to be great.

“…Calzaghe also boasts wins over Eubank, Robin Reid, and Charles Brewer. Other fractional belt-holders of his era. That puts his record at 7-0 there. Can Pacquiao say that?”

None of those guys had a belt when Calzaghe fought them. They had all been defeated by fighters who didn’t have much of a name… the most famous probably being Sven Ottke and Steve Collins.Pacquiao has beaten 9 title holders in  his career. In 4 Different weight divisions. Including three guaranteed Hall of Fame fighters. He may not be as slick or as smart as Joe but he has achieved more and has done nothing which makes me doubt his credentials enough for Calzaghe to dislodge him as P4P #1.

Pacquiao should be remembered as an all-time great, and yes, many greats have losses, because THEY ALL FOUGHT EACH OTHER BACK THEN! To be unbeaten still does mean something, if it is legitimate (see SvenOttke and JC Chavez for exceptions), and when you compare opposition, it is similar enough that Calzaghe’s unblemished record, plus level of dominance, puts him above Pacquiao.

An unblemished record? Dominance? Most of the names on Sven Ottke’s record are on Joe Calzaghe. And Ottke may have a few disputed wins of his record ,like a win over Robin Reid but wait! So does Joe Calzaghe. Calzaghe has  made his mark in the last few years of his career against  Jeff Lacy who had less fights than Prince Naseem had knock outs and Mikkel Kessler who has now come out with a reason or two for his defeat. Now I am not dismissing these wins as I was impressed by both. For me though they arent enough for me to rate him above the Pacman… I won’t list Pacquiao’s achievements again as we are now just going over old ground.

“You accuse me of being Welsh (I’m not), but who has replaced logic with ethnocentric fanaticism more than Brits, Mexicans, and lately Filipinos?Chavez, Hatton, Trinidad, Pacquiao were/are all great, but very overrated. Calzaghe proved his worth to everyone. Not just his own people.”

I am all for people getting behind their local fighters but thats another post entirely. My comments are purely as a boxing fan and I rate Manny Pacquiao’s achievements above Calzaghe’s. I am not the only person who has Pacquiao above Calzaghe in the mythical P4P rating and in retrospect I guess it boils down to what you look for in fighter.

That being said I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. You think Manny Pacquiao is overrated I think Joe Calzaghe is overrated

PART ONE Who’s #1? Manny Pacquiao or Joe Calzaghe.
Response:
Mao Chu – RE: Who’s #1? Manny Pacquiao or Joe Calzaghe.
Response:
More on Who’s Number One? Manny Pacquiao or Joe Calzaghe

By Chris Strait, SocalFightFan on Doghouse Boxing (Nov 26, 2008)

‘…Manny is being advertised as the best fighter around now… a couple years ago, his case was better than Calzaghe. That is no longer the situation…. I believe Calzaghe stands clearly alone.’

Now I couldn’t think of anything that Joe Calzaghe had done in the last couple years to match, nevermind exceed Manny Pacquiao’s achievements so I read on, Chris made three points.

1) Barrera and Morales were no less over the hill when they fought Pacquiao, than Hopkins and Jones were when they fought Calzaghe. Pacquiao’s wins against fellow stars are therefore no more impressive than Calzaghe’s.

WOW! I was now thinking: is this guy Welsh? Related to Calzaghe? Blind? or Stupid? Marco Antonio Barrera was 29! When Pacquiao beat him, He had won his last 8 fights which included schooling Featherweight Power Puncher Prince Naseem Hamed and exacting revenge on his Mexican rival Erik Morales! He also scored a number of wins over the top featherweights at the time. Its true Bernard Hopkins was seen as the LightHeavyweight king, but he was 43!!! And in reality Hopkins has only ever faced one legitimate LightHeavyweight in Antonio Tarver. By mentioning Roy Jones and Erik Morales you are asking “who is more washed up” a tough one, the fact is Manny did to Erik what no-one else was able to do STOP him. Joe didn’t come close to stopping the 39yr old Roy Jones who had looked fragile since his first KO defeat to Antonio Tarver and fought the championship rounds with one eye.

2) Pacquiao has losses. Calzaghe doesn’t. Period. Not that Pacquiao’s losses don’t come with slight asterisks (low blow, drained from weight loss, close decision), but he does/can slip. Calzaghe always comes through, no matter what.

OK, I read this and wondered how you got to write an article on Doghouse boxing? Did you win a prize? Did you just discover boxing? Is this joke I just don’t get? You need to learn there is more to boxing and measuring a fighters merits than just an “0″!  Why don’t you check out the records of Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammed Ali and Sugar Ray Leornard. All of whom were defeated at one point and are rated by most if not all above Calzaghe on the ALL TIME P4P list. You should try considering the fact that THIS YEAR Manny Pacquiao won a title in his fourth different weight division, by KO. If Calzaghe had beaten David Haye and then Jumped up to Heavyweight divison to stop Valuev (who could be the David Diaz of the Heavyweight division) I MAY rate him abovbe Pacquiao but he didn’t!

3) Calzaghe can say he beat top contemporaries like Lacy and Kessler, in dominating fashion. Pacquiao’s only contemporary championship level opponent was Marquez, and his record there is 1-0-1. Either fight could have gone to Marquez, also.

Marquez is a master boxer who I also rate above Calzaghe in the p4p stakes. Sure Calzaghe was the first to expose the much hyped Jeff Lacy and I give him credit. He also looked good agaisnt Mikkel Kessler BUT who else have these fighters beat? What else have they achieved? Marquez is a three weight division world champion! Kessler and Lacy were merley title holders in a division which is mainly ignored. Bottom line is Calzaghe is and will be remembered as a very good fighter whereas Manny Pacquiao will be remembered as a Great fighter!

Read the Response by Chris

Read My closing Arguemen on Pacquiao and Calzaghe